Tuesday, June 30, 2015

Follow up

A couple of topics for discussion.

First, I think "Dog People are Nuts" nailed "Goose's" breed.  Goose may be a Brindle Lurcher.   Or, WAS LOLOLLULZZZ!

From Wiki:  "The lurcher has as many varied uses as types can be crossbred, but generally they are used as hunting dogs that can chase and kill their prey"  This seems consistent with the behavior reported in the cop's back yard.   Sounds like a great dog to simply turn loose in your suburban neighborhood.  Its all good!

Second, the update on next door IS....

... The dog has not been seen or heard from in a week.  The guy must have been dog sitting, or the visit from AC turned him off REAL fast.  I am assuming the former.  If so, the guy is probably the worst dog sitter EVER - leaving a dog tied out on a short leash, in the broiling heat and then a dangerous thunderstorm?   Why do dog lovers think this sort of behavior is OK?   If we were to ban this type of behavior, the majority of nuisance barking would go away.  It SHOULD be a win-win.  However, when we complain, we are told to shut up and sit down.

The above appears to be more "bait 'n switch" from the dog loving crowd.  "See, dogs are incredibly intelligent, super sentient creatures superior to humans and all other animals!"  OK, then why the hell do you leave your dog chained to a truck axle 24x7??  "Who cares, its only a dog!".

This type of behavior is also referred to as "moving the goalposts" and dog lovers and apologistas must be super athletic from this nonstop frenzied moving of said goalposts.  It is hard to keep up with them!


  1. Hunting dogs love being house pets. Common sense is dead.

    1. Pit fighters are even better! Especially with lots of little screaming kids in the house.

    2. A team of Alaskan Malamutes might give them a run for their money.

    3. And to think so many dog-related issues could be pared down if more owners took the time to research what breeds fit their lifestyle. It's all too easy for them to choose a dog based on its look, purpose, or reputation. Not just "badass attack dog" reputation either. Dalmatians are already tough to handle, but they've long been known as a problem breed because of Disney. Lassie churned out a lot of questionable collies. Don't get me started on what petified huskies and malamutes.

      And then we have people who shouldn't own a dog at all. But they do, for one reason or another, and that adds to the larger issue.

    4. I think MOST people shouldn't own a dog. Think about it-if you work 40+ hours a week and commute another 10-20 hours a week what time or energy does a person have left for a high maintenance animal? In a study a THIRD of dog owners freely admitted they seldom to NEVER walk (ei: exercise) their dog-a root cause of a bored, lonely, under stimulated barkomatic. Dog really only make good pets for people who work from home, someone is a stay at home (mom/dad/whatever), or retired, if then.

    5. The root problem? The relentless promotion of dog ownership as the be-all end-all. Feeling lonely? Get a dog. Don't have anyone to love you? That dog will love you unconditionally. And on and on it goes.

    6. You left out the save a pets life mantra. There is an excess animal population. Looking at the current lost pets in my area this morning the vast majority are unaltered. And long past puppy or kitten stages. Considering the plethora of outright free with no real income restrictions, prorated programs and reduced fee spay and neuter clinics I can only surmise that the owners of these strays are morons. Because of this thinking and how common it is once again so called cat and dog lovers are themselves going to be accountable for the eventual and necessary humane disposal of millions of pets that should have never been born.
      The best pet for anyone will always be a puppy or kitten that was raised in a home and well socialized from birth , from healthy stock with dependable temperaments.
      We've had a Maine Coon for 8 years. Purchased from a breeder. She is still in business loves updates and would do her best to help us rehome this cat and our others if we needed to. We had to fill out more forms and agreements to bring this MC home that some human adoption agencies, or so it seemed. The cats temperament is exactly as promised plus she came litter trained and has never used anything but the scratching posts. Which is more than I can say for the heathens I raised.

    7. The only real solution to the pet over population problem is mandatory by law spay and neuter. NO selling of dogs or cats by people who don't have a breeding permit. Selling punishable by law without the permit. Permits not issued for substandard or overbred (ei: pit bulls) animals. Every pet sold has the price of a pre-paid spay/neuter certificate included. If the animal isn't done by six months AC gives you a one week warning then confiscates it, has it fixed, and returns it to you with the bill.

    8. Ka D. Your solution works only if we end the shelter and rescue madness.

    9. Not if the ones adopted out of shelters and rescues are already fixed, which they should be.

  2. Check this page out: www.facebook.com/bulllurchers. Some of those dogs are dead ringers (heh) for Goose.

    I first found out about bull lurchers in a group about dangerous dogs when someone posted a photo, asking if their mother's vicious, unstable dog was a Weimaraner as claimed (HELL NO). They're very popular for illegally hunting native deer.

    1. Crossing bloodshed with quickness--I'd rather not be around any bull lurchers.

    2. Wow what a fun dog. More fun than opening a can of dingoes in the baby's nursery.

    3. I took a look at the FB page and there is a dog nearly identical to Goose.

      How did an obscure breed like this wind up in the Jacksonville dog pound? Supposedly, he WAS a "rescue".

      I am thinking that Goose was a known dangerous dog "laundered" by rescue angel foamers. I estimate his early history (now erased) includes attacks on people and/or other animals. The current owner may or may not have known about it. IOW's, Goose likely attacked somebody in another jurisdiction, was declared vicious and banned from that jurisdiction. Goose then got a new name and a new home in a suburban neighborhood where the dangerous behavior continued.

    4. This is why BSL will never work. At least now. Ban Pit Bulls and they call them American Bulldogs, Staffordshire Terrier. Collectively remove those breeds from the air supply and the bottom feeders and fools will line up for the next dog breed that should have been made extinct.
      An example of BSL working is Tijeras. They uphold that ban and because it is decades old now it works.
      Now they are increasing in numbers due to dumb owners who do not fix their dogs. And those same dogs running loose and crossbreeding with everything. Some of them are deliberate crosses.
      The only reasons the ban in Tijeras works is because they shut the barn door before the horse ran out so to speak.


    5. RE: BSL issues. I agree. The problems with breed bans just keep piling up.

      As I've said before, I don't necessarily trust the Pro-BSL folks - it seems like most of them are hard core dog lovers who are fine with using dogs to project aggression, they just hate pit bulls. Its almost like a group of gun criminals/spree killers that hate AK47's.

      Really, it is the anti-social, destructive behavior that we are fighting against. As you noted, the weapon du joir happens to be one or two "bad" breeds but if you take a way the means, evil still finds a way.

      My BSL proposal is to raise standards for ANY pet animal with an average weight over, say, 30 lbs. This means that any adult can fight it off and/or readily defend any children in their care. Hell, if you need a farm to raise chickens, why not pit bulls?

    6. Dogs have been used to "project aggression" as a utilitarian function for thousands of years. What has changed is the inability of owners to control their dogs and a changing view from society that even biters or killers are victims of people. I am an anti-social person and one of the main reasons I have dogs is as protection. Why is it so bizarre that I also hate pit bulls and their owners? My dogs (Dobermans) have never bitten anyone or even tried to but I feel very safe with them.

  3. Bans work just fine if you ban all pit bull types *and their mixes*. One of the problems with dog people is that so many delight in showing off by discussing various AKC / UKC / etc 'breeds': "Is it a presa or a cane? Is it a dogo or an Am Bull?" Endless boring discussions about exactly which pit bull mix killed yet again. Fact remains that all of them are just vulgar pit bull mixes.

  4. I agree that BSL doesn't completely solve the problem of dangerous (or nuisance) dogs and can lull people into a false sense of security. On the aforementioned dangerous dogs group, I've had the frustrating experience of having to remind people that dogs were used and bred to kill people for thousands of years (with examples), long before the relatively recent invention of the pit bull. Those who can't accept this tend to be dog owners themselves who use pitbulls to avoid dealing with uncomfortable realities about their own doggies. Still, pitbulls need to be eradicated, because while they're hardly the only breed physically capable of killing, they seem to have a built-in psychosis that dogfighters call "gameness" and "tenacity". It's really just a brain disorder that makes them unbelievably violent and unpredictable.

    BSL is a good start, though. American Pit Bull Terriers are banned where I live (Australia), and while there are unfortunately still plenty of pitbulls around, depending where you live (largely due to ridiculous loopholes such as allowing Staffordshire Bull Terriers and not recognizing Amstaffs as synonymous with APBT), it's mostly illegal dogfighters who want and have them. Pitbulls aren't being pushed onto everyone to the same extent by shelters and there's not so much propaganda about how they're great family pets, nanny dogs, etc. Fatal dog attacks are extremely rare - 2 in the past 5 years (guess the types). The pitbull propaganda, however, is starting to gain traction here, especially since it has grown strong in New Zealand, where pitbulls aren't banned. Some assholes here are calling to end BSL. It needs to be EXPANDED instead.

  5. Scratch my statistic - I was basing it on what I'd read in the news (we have no national database for fatal dog attacks), but fatal dog attacks in Australia seem to be more common than I thought. From what I can tell so far, there is roughly 1 fatal attack every 1-2 years.

    1. Death from vicious dog attack is a very rare occurrence.

      Australia - 24m human pop, 1 DBRF/yr. (using the low end of your statistic)
      USA - 321m human pop, 42 dbrf/yr. (last year)

      So, Aussies have about a 1 in 24,000,000 chance of being killed by a vicious dog in a year. Americans have a 1 in 7,600,000 chance of being killed by a vicious dog in a year. So, we are three times more likely to be killed by Fido!

      Still, these are long odds. I think its a mistake to focus entirely on a handful of exceptional events when the social costs of, say, dog noise pollution are extremely high. Dog noise pollution negatively impacts the lives of millions.

    2. I could argue that the odds of being killed or mauled by a pit bull or other vicious dog are remote but we are talking a domestic pet here not a wild animal. When you add in all the numbers from the killing of humans and other domestic pets and the mauling of humans and domestic pets the real horror story emerges.
      A handful of shark attacks has people up in arms. The comments on those stories are hilarious. People wanting to put a bounty on sharks , build huge walls in the ocean to keep sharks away from beaches and on and on. A pit bull shreds a baby in a bouncy chair and the pitters circle the wagons around their poor misunderstood pups. I can 100% avoid the possibility of shark attack. Dogs, any breed is nearly impossible if you happen to be in your yard, on the sidewalk, a park, store. There really is no safe haven.
      The right dog laws will in essence be BSL. it will make the keeping and breeding of vicious dogs undesirable based simply on the punishment involved when one goes off the deep end.
      Everyone should do themselves a favor. if you life in a one bite state start writing to make dog owners responsible for the first nip of a loose dogs or unprovoked attack even if someone is on the dog's property. It is not normal for a domestic pet dog to disembowel anyone who might enter your property.

    3. This is a very interesting side conversation. I've been wanting to flesh this topic via an article for a while, but haven't the time/wherewithal.

      One problem I have with some of the BSL folks is they seem to imply that, outside of the Pit Bull galaxy, the doggie universe is all great and good. This is nonsense.

      Consider Decatur AL's situation. Lets play a mental game where the pit bulls have been swapped out by, say, Saint Bernards. SB's kill at a lower rate than pit bulls so the physical danger is now somewhat less by my reckoning.

      However, a neighbor with a backyard full of SB's can still make life on the block unlivable. Decatur would STILL have to put up with the foul stench from the dog crap and endless, noxious, foul BARKING. Both the filth and the noise can result in all sorts of physical and mental health problems and may lead to premature death on their own Therefore, swapping PB's with SB's does not improve the overall situation very much. Its the difference between hitting the wall at 100mph and 90mph. One is less bad than the other, but neither is acceptable.

      The Jordyn Arnt murder is another interesting case. This was a child killed by her babysitter's pit bull. The dog in question had been frequently running loose and behaving dangerously towards people. Neighbors were carrying bats and guns and living in fear of the dog that was frequently unleashed off property. Nothing was done about it until the child was killed. Now, why was the prior arrangement acceptable? If the child had not been killed, the dog would still be violating the rights of everyone else in the community.

    4. Many mauling and pit killings are followed by neighbors saying the dog has been an issue for a long time.
      When the neighbors dogs kept charging anyone who walked down the road I called it in. Couldn't watch it anymore.
      I seldom hear that they called to report a problem dog. Either they are dog owners themselves and this would entail them having to keep their own confined, AC is so ineffective that it's pointless to call. Or the assumption that someone else will do it for them.
      Our roads are hard packed caliche. I'd rather fall on hot tar mixed with road spikes. Besides avoiding bites there are a number of injuries you can sustain just fending off a dog attack.
      We called AC again after a 3 day spate of loose dogs finished off by that vermin barking under our windows. Our AC laws need more teeth than the dogs running loose.
      Our laws concerning animals are reactive rather than preventive.

    5. 6,700 people injured, four killed over a ten year period – lawn darts banned.

      An estimated 4.5 million people injured every year (most children), around 800,000 requiring hospital treatment, more than 30,000 requiring reconstructive surgery, an average of 20 deaths each year, yet more laws exist to protect the cause of these injuries than to regulate or control it.

      You want to put a dent in the above statistics you can't nitpick about breeds or size of dogs. One set of laws that apply to all dogs and all dog owners.

      Your dog barks, howls, whines, and disrupts your neighbor's lives, you get a fine. The problem continues, the fine doubles. If fines don't seem to solve the problem, community service.

      Your dog runs loose, you get a fine. It doesn't matter if your dog is a 100 pound bit bull or three-legged chihuahua with a medical cone, you get the same fine. Your dog gets caught running loose again, the fine doubles. Again, if fines don't solve the problem, community service.

      If someone is in a place they have a legal right be in, including an invited guest in a house, doing nothing illegal and a dog bites them, the dog's owner is automatically responsible for all their medical bills, fined for failure to control their dog, charged with assault, and the dog is put down. If the dog kills someone, the owner is charged with manslaughter. The dog's owner can file a petition with the courts if they feel there's been a mistake, but no more putting the burden of a legal fight on the victim.

      Any consumer product that inflicted the amount of damage to human lives as dogs would have been banned decades, even centuries ago. Dogs continue to be worshiped and glorified with no accountability or responsibility expected from them or their delusional owners.

    6. Howard:

      Indeed. Thanks for writing.

    7. ONE bite from a pit bull can and has been FATAL. Most breeds simply are not capable of killing with ONE bite. http://blog.dogsbite.org/2008/08/2008-fatality-detroit-man-killed-by.html

  6. In 1990, Washington State legislators unanimously passed the first sexual predator law that allowed the state to lock someone up indefinitely in an effort to protect the community from future crimes they MIGHT commit.

    Over the next 25 years, nineteen states passed similar laws and of course legal challenges claiming the laws were unconstitutional were close behind. Funny, each time the laws were challenged, the courts upheld the right of the state to protect the community from violent predators.

    Hardly a day goes by where I do not read or hear about situations where people complain to the authorities about loose and menacing dogs but the response from law enforcement and animal control is "Sorry, we can't do anything until after the dog bites."

    The $64,000 questions is: Why do dangerous dogs have more rights than dangerous humans?

    If we as a society can lock human beings up indefinitely to prevent future crimes they might commit, why on earth can't we take similar actions against dangerous DOGS? Why are dogs afforded this ridiculously excessive burden of proof?

    1. I have made it clear to everyone including our AC. I am not going to be the one free bite for my neighbors dogs. After the mess this Sunday where they were menacing a human trying to take a walk. Honest from the sound inside I thought someone was down being bitten , dog or human. If she wants to keep those things and let those things have their fangs near her children let it be some type of record here she should have known better if the worst happens. Right now I believe they are building dog pens. After what I witnessed Sunday and my own personal run in Friday both of those mutts should be taking dirt naps. All laws for pets should be proactive and have clauses and conditions that determine if any pet is a menace. Even if it hasn't attacked or bitten. Contrary to the AR nuts. Dogs are not covered in the legal system except as property.

  7. http://www.pebri.net/index_19.htm

    1. Ka D,

      From that article you linked to.

      "An adult narcissist, in other words, is still stuck in his "terrible twos" and is possessed with the emotional maturity of a toddler."

      That's exactly what I told my buddy it was like trying to deal with my neighbors and their barking dogs - it was like trying to talk to a child. Glad to see it's not just me.

      Interesting article. I've always thought there's more to dog owner's reverence for dogs than just the dog. There's some type of psychosis at work there.

  8. I was NASTY about a pit that ran loose in the trailer park we lived in. It had run loose many times and terrorized children, other dogs and cats. When it killed an outdoor cat of one of my daughter's friends, I called police dispatch, and started being a grade A bitch right away. When the cop pulled up, I told him to get his clipboard and papers to file a complaint before he even got out of the car. I cursed up one side and down the other about having called about Simon so many times. After that he was ordered put down. They still had, and as far as I know, still have Odie, their other pit bull. They're lowlife trailer park queens. They thought it was funny when the only reason their neighbor lived was because he worked overtime. The daughters had been going around bragging about ripping their ex boyfriends off in a drug deal. The ex's came to kill them but the bullets missed all of them and their dog. They would have hit the next door neighbor if he'd been home. Some went through the recliner he sat in to watch tv and his bedroom wall. The girls and their idiot life giver (so not a mom or mother) all thought it was funny. Both dogs were nuisance runners, but back then, only one attacked anything. They were allowed to keep Odie. There needs to be a law that if ONE of your animals gets out and attacks, you lose all pets, even goldfish. If you can't take care of one pet, you shouldn't have any more.

    1. As I've said before, a troubled breed attracts troubled people.

    2. After this weekends dog nuttery I just seen the neighbors two dogs go running down the road free as a birds. I simply walked in and called AC. One is a a Carin Terrier
      That about sums this dog up.
      And a border collie.
      They are a not at all charming pair and have brought out the worst behavior in each other through being allowed to run loose and poor socialization.
      While there is an attraction to dangerous breeds it seems most people are incapable even with all the information on the internet to choose a dog breed that suit their lifestyle.
      Stuffed would be a good one for these people.