tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1547600777592832280.post3966831574213733748..comments2024-03-27T18:22:28.226-07:00Comments on Animal Uncontrol: Unequal protection, part IAnimal Uncontrolhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01353756918671252887noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1547600777592832280.post-19501695071172755362012-09-11T16:56:25.680-07:002012-09-11T16:56:25.680-07:00How's this real life situation? I was in a bar...How's this real life situation? I was in a bar watching a football game when a stray dog from a careless neighbor that came in through the open door in back. It got hyperactive like it just smoked a gram of crack. It kept jumping on my leg and I spent several minutes trying to shake it off, yelling at it. It finally (barely) got the hint and I kept having to tell it no. <br /><br />This dog almost became a field goal, but we know what I'd end up as, a person in jail trying to defend myself had I sent it through the uprights. One patron even had the nerve to call me the asshole, presumably for not assuming it's friendly until it bites. Don't I have a right to not be assaulted? <br /><br />It's enough to make you wonder what would happen if George Zimmerman shot a charging dog instead of Trayvon Martin. Since when do dogs get more rights than people? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1547600777592832280.post-37628019403213429072012-06-15T01:03:09.302-07:002012-06-15T01:03:09.302-07:00From Clifton's article on PBs and racism:
&quo...From Clifton's article on PBs and racism:<br />"While there are human victims among all classes and ethnic groups, Afro-Americans,especially Afro-American children, have suffered most."<br /><br />It would be interesting to have some hard statistics on this, too...I thought. <br /><br />But then I checked out 'disparate impact' (unintentional discrimination) quote from Wikipedia:<br />Justice Lewis Powell, writing for the Court, stated, "Proof of racially discriminatory intent or purpose is required to show a violation of the Equal Protection Clause." Disparate impact merely has an evidentiary value; absent a "stark" pattern, "impact is not determinative." (See also Washington v. Davis (1976).)<br />And:<br />The Supreme Court has answered that the equal protection clause itself does not forbid policies which lead to racial disparities, but that Congress may by legislation prohibit such policies.<br /><br />Which is to say, any stats on criminal tendencies and racial disparity in who pit bulls are mauling and killing, would only be useful in influencing public opinion and thus legislators. <br /><br />Gads, but even if that unlikely project were to succeed, you'd still be left with the barking dogs. Though I still think cracking down on vicious dogs would maybe tip the slippery slope back the other way...Sweetie Piehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18048713290619160232noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1547600777592832280.post-38678279645402246452012-06-15T00:27:52.345-07:002012-06-15T00:27:52.345-07:00Re the KKK and dogfighting:
http://www.animalpeop...Re the KKK and dogfighting:<br /><br />http://www.animalpeoplenews.org/05/4/tsg.dogfightingMeth4.05.htmSweetie Piehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18048713290619160232noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1547600777592832280.post-77362394028447698452012-06-15T00:15:35.545-07:002012-06-15T00:15:35.545-07:00Re pit bulls and racism:
http://www.scribd.com/do...Re pit bulls and racism:<br /><br />http://www.scribd.com/doc/29439025/Racism-and-Pit-Bull-Terriers-by-Merritt-Clifton-March-21-2005-Best-Friends-Animal-Society-Online-Forum<br /><br />Re criminal behavior of pit bull owners...<br /><br />Report of another study (2006):<br /><br />http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/pit-bull-owners-more-likely-to-be-criminals/2006/11/17/1163266755120.html<br /><br />And a 2009 discussion by Stanley Coren of this Ohio study:<br /><br />http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/canine-corner/200903/psychological-characteristics-owners-high-risk-aggression-dog-breeds<br /><br />And an LA newspaper report about cracking down on vicious dogs resulting in reduced gang activities:<br /><br />http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/01/lancasters-dog-ordinance-is-cited-in-helping-to-drive-down-gang-crime.htmlSweetie Piehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18048713290619160232noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1547600777592832280.post-514843264061780732012-06-14T23:28:43.966-07:002012-06-14T23:28:43.966-07:00AU, you've misunderstood! My lawyer friend was...AU, you've misunderstood! My lawyer friend was in NO WAY saying your post was racially discriminatory. He loved your concept of extending equal protection to people who don't own dogs. He meant that likely no court would adopt the idea because the courts interpret 'equal protection' as referring to discrimination on the basis of race and/or religion. <br /><br />This isn't any lawyers fault. Lawyers have sometimes done their best to get (for example) gender and sexual orientation included in equal protection. It's the courts that have declined to broaden the sweep of our 14th Amendment. Made it very difficult to get it applied to anything other than race or religion. <br /><br />See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_Protection_Clause#Suspect_classes<br /><br />cos I didn't know this either yesterday, til my friend's reaction spurred me to go searching.Sweetie Piehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18048713290619160232noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1547600777592832280.post-71556016779689306262012-06-14T16:19:22.970-07:002012-06-14T16:19:22.970-07:00More on felony records: http://people.howstuffwor...More on felony records: http://people.howstuffworks.com/criminal-record.htmAnimal Uncontrolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01353756918671252887noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1547600777592832280.post-86488211392853396792012-06-14T16:18:35.722-07:002012-06-14T16:18:35.722-07:00Hmmmm... are they DISCRIMINATING against those bre...Hmmmm... are they DISCRIMINATING against those breeds? Are they racist? LOL!!!<br /><br />Back on topic, approximately 6.5% of Americans have felony conviction records. About that many have served prison terms at some point in their lifetime. <br /><br />That would help support the ~60% of pit bull owners having a felonious background. I figure if there are 10 times more felons in that population, relatively speaking, then we might be in the neighborhood of 60%.<br /><br />Pushing that guesstimated percentage *down* would be the fact that many of those probably have more than one conviction.<br /><br />Pushing that percentage back *up* would be the point that, I'm sure there are more criminals in the pit bull crowd than there are among the rottweiler or doberman crowd. Pit Nutters are a class all onto themselves!!!<br /><br />It would be interesting to select, say, 1000 pit bull owners at random and background check all of them. That would be a very expensive proposition (I'm certainly not going to take that on) BUT it would be VERY revealing! Not just to see how many were felons, but to find out what types of crimes were common: Rape, burglary, drug offenses, etc...Animal Uncontrolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01353756918671252887noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1547600777592832280.post-80430406275321218372012-06-14T15:12:34.384-07:002012-06-14T15:12:34.384-07:00Interesting that you should mention those breeds, ...Interesting that you should mention those breeds, Animal Uncontrol. <br /><br />Why? Because I was looking at switching homeowner's insurance policies a few years back. <br /><br />One of the companies I considered was American Family. Agent told me flat-out that the company would not cover a property where the following dogs were present: Akita, Chow, Pit Bull, Rottweiler, and Wolf Hybrid.Your Quiet Neighborhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15865179687268241220noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1547600777592832280.post-56807983667748092642012-06-14T10:41:56.871-07:002012-06-14T10:41:56.871-07:00Also from that article:
"Todate, only one em...Also from that article:<br /><br />"Todate, only one empirical study has examined the characteristics of persons who choose to own their high-risk dogs (6). Barnes et al.reports that owners of Akitas, Chow-Chows, Dobermans, Pit Bulls,Rottweilers, and Wolf-mixes endorsed approximately 10 times more criminal convictions than owners of nonvicious dogs. "Animal Uncontrolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01353756918671252887noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1547600777592832280.post-57689334714960603332012-06-14T10:12:53.025-07:002012-06-14T10:12:53.025-07:00Here is an interesting article. I don't think...Here is an interesting article. I don't think it goes precisely to point, as this report was compiled from interviews, and is not a hard statistic. I want a hard statistic that divides the number of dangerous dog owners with actual criminal records by the number of people with those same dogs. <br /><br />Anyway, here is the article: http://www.scribd.com/doc/13073172/Vicious-Dogs-The-Antisocial-Behaviors-and-Psychological-Characteristics-of-Owners<br /><br />ABSTRACT:<br />Each year, 4.7 million people are bitten by dogs. Of those bitten each year, 386,000 are seriously injured and some killed. Conse-quently, many insurance companies refuse to issue homeowners insurance to owners of specific breeds of dogs considered<br />‘‘<br />vicious<br />’’<br />or high risk of causing injury. This study examined whether vicious dog owners were different on antisocial behaviors and personality dimensions. A total of 869college students completed an anonymous online questionnaire assessing type of dog owned, criminal behaviors, attitudes towards animal abuse, psy-chopathy, and personality. The sample was divided into four groups: vicious dog owners, large dog owners, small dog owners, and controls. Findingsrevealed vicious dog owners reported significantly more criminal behaviors than other dog owners. Vicious dog owners were higher in sensationseeking and primary psychopathy. Study results suggest that vicious dog ownership may be a simple marker of broader social deviance.Animal Uncontrolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01353756918671252887noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1547600777592832280.post-62681444999960378952012-06-14T09:34:41.646-07:002012-06-14T09:34:41.646-07:00I can't find the link on that. Perhaps I shou...I can't find the link on that. Perhaps I should edit to say "disproportionate".Animal Uncontrolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01353756918671252887noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1547600777592832280.post-72302068141344419072012-06-14T09:19:04.879-07:002012-06-14T09:19:04.879-07:00Sixty percent have felony record? As in, being cha...Sixty percent have felony record? As in, being charged and convicted of at least one felony, and not a misdemeanor?<br /><br />Yipes.<br /><br />We're not dealing with the most exemplary people, that's for sure. Thanks for the additional data point, AU.Your Quiet Neighborhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15865179687268241220noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1547600777592832280.post-10551157462925286822012-06-14T05:52:15.333-07:002012-06-14T05:52:15.333-07:00There is a strong correlation between pit bull own...There is a strong correlation between pit bull ownership and criminal activity. Approximately 60% of pit bull owners have a felony record.<br /><br />As far as the connection to triple-K and AB, there is a strong correlation there, too but I don't have any numbers on it. Its not just the breeding, but the related dog-fighting operation that is used to support the group.Animal Uncontrolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01353756918671252887noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1547600777592832280.post-71777742688206808262012-06-14T05:09:53.319-07:002012-06-14T05:09:53.319-07:00Post on the pit bull breeding-hate group connectio...Post on the pit bull breeding-hate group connection, please!Your Quiet Neighborhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15865179687268241220noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1547600777592832280.post-1247151741538384042012-06-14T04:17:31.877-07:002012-06-14T04:17:31.877-07:00I should probably add that Pit Bull breeding is of...I should probably add that Pit Bull breeding is often used as a "fundraising" tool by KKK, Aryan brotherhood, and a few other home-grown hate groups.<br /><br />Ironically, THEY accuse anyone who doesn't accept their dogs and what they do as RACIST. I guess it takes one to know one. The pit bull IS the pet of choice for criminals, hate mongers, and terrorists!Animal Uncontrolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01353756918671252887noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1547600777592832280.post-17967736955617333952012-06-14T04:13:02.075-07:002012-06-14T04:13:02.075-07:00Sweetie Pie,
How is my post racially discriminato...Sweetie Pie,<br /><br />How is my post racially discriminatory? There is no racial discrimination indicated there. The fact is, discrimination against ANIMALS is practiced all the time. We have grocery stores full of dead animals. We have legal hunting in most of the country. We are forcibly prevented from owning many kinds of animals as pets (Lions, tigers, etc...). Exterminators kill rats, mice, and other vermin all the time. <br /><br />In fact, I submit that the situation is ALREADY discriminatory in that it places the interests of individual dogs ahead of everyone else. Dogs enjoy a high level of "legal" protection. The question is, how much longer is that going to last?<br /><br />With all due respect to your lawyer friend, THEY are probably the wishful thinkers. Lawyers lie all the time. Comparing discrimination against dogs to discrimination against human beings is insulting and stupid. Its another cheap rhetorical tactic used by pit nutters and other dog fanatics to protect dangerous dogs at the expense of public safety. In fact, Miami got to UPHOLD their pit bull ban after a legislative battle with the state. ALL pit bulls in Miami are confiscated and destroyed.<br /><br />My scenario IS over the top crazy. HOWEVER, its no more over the top crazy than the current situation. Dogs and their owners get to assault us at whim and there is nothing we can do about it. Yes, it is "legal" but on the same note its interesting to consider that everything Hitler did was "legal" until we kicked his ASS in WWII. He made up the laws to suit him. Hitler was also a dog lover.Animal Uncontrolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01353756918671252887noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1547600777592832280.post-82682768317845729022012-06-14T01:40:18.453-07:002012-06-14T01:40:18.453-07:00I ran this post past a lawyer friend. He wrote bac...I ran this post past a lawyer friend. He wrote back:<br /><br />"The post is a great fantasy! Unfortunately, the legal analysis is fantasy too. It's a wonderful idea, but I can't see a court adopting it. The equal protection clause prohibits discrimination based on factors such as race." <br /><br />Disappointing, because in terms of justice and fairness you are absolutely correct here. It's clear the courts aren't going to help us. Legislation seems to be the only way.Sweetie Piehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18048713290619160232noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1547600777592832280.post-29866769643725346412012-06-13T18:26:19.959-07:002012-06-13T18:26:19.959-07:00YQN:
How about this: "Animal Uncontrol, the...YQN:<br /><br />How about this: "Animal Uncontrol, the Musical!" LOL<br /><br />I'd never heard about that book you mentioned. I looked it up on Amazon. Doesn't appear to be very popular. It appears to me that the author is criticizing the lifestyle choice to own a pet (primarily dogs). <br /><br />In my opinion, lifestyle choices only become a problem when they are foisted on others. Again, freedom to have a dog translates into freedom FROM that dog.Animal Uncontrolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01353756918671252887noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1547600777592832280.post-34210542804803115012012-06-13T11:52:19.722-07:002012-06-13T11:52:19.722-07:00Please write a book, Animal Uncontrol.
I'll ...Please write a book, Animal Uncontrol. <br /><br />I'll bet you'd do a better job than the author of that book from a few years back. It's called Is Pet Ownership Destroying the Lives of Americans? (I think we know the answer.)Your Quiet Neighborhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15865179687268241220noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1547600777592832280.post-87343404201294013282012-06-12T19:36:33.903-07:002012-06-12T19:36:33.903-07:00I LOVE your posts! You are genius, my friend!I LOVE your posts! You are genius, my friend!Jewel Jadehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00325345847095287345noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1547600777592832280.post-16621670918961605792012-06-12T19:15:22.922-07:002012-06-12T19:15:22.922-07:00you really should consider writing a book.you really should consider writing a book.scurrilous amateur bloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00575387156203723911noreply@blogger.com